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Author Topic: Are GM books done now except for D&D?  (Read 2657 times)

HappyDaze

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2022, 02:15:35 PM »
Or perhaps offer just one sparser player's book, and one combined book for GMs, if your printing model is more restricted.
This is the approach used by Modiphius on several of their 2d20 games, such as Conan. The Player's Guide is roughly 1/3 the size of the core book and just contains the player-focused chapters from the core.

Sanson

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2022, 12:48:54 AM »
   I'd not really thought about it too much, but it does seem to be a bit of a thing of the past to have separate books for players and GM's.  While i like
getting the entire system with one volume, there's probably something to be said for having the two completely separate.

   In my current campaign (1e AD&D) i'm fortunate enough to have a few younger players who have ONLY ever seen the old players handbook, a hand
down for their parents.  And it's been amazing to have players who don't know what green slime or shriekers or stirges are... plus i get the chance to
run old modules that were pretty much useless except for inspiration back in my younger days because almost everyone i knew who played had all
checked them out the library too.  Been nice to run B2 for a group that has no idea what to expect from it.  Was my first adventure as a player but by
the time i was DMing knowledge of it was pretty much ubiquitous.  And for a horror themed game it would be a good thing to keep certain info from
the players eyes.  Though if you're planning on modules or supplements maybe the important GM info could be contained only there.

   That said, it does make selling a system harder when there's more than one volume these days, but best of luck whichever way you choose to go.
WotC makes me play 1st edition AD&D out of spite...

Fheredin

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2022, 09:05:34 AM »
Ultimately, I think GM books and premade adventures are failing the power-to-weight requirements of modern gaming. D&D is getting away with it because D&D sells itself these days with nostalgia. It's a remake of 3.5, not a modern OSR. There's also the matter that only one company on earth can really sell supplements in enough volume to be remotely worth it; WotC. Every other company or publisher out there is probably going to get edition sales in the same order of magnitude as D&D's supplement sales.

But the problem with supplements is that it's fundamentally designed for adventurers who aren't that experienced and aren't that genre-savvy, and for playstyles which aren't that open to lateral thinking because sometimes it works great, sometimes it could break the plot. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, most of us were highschoolers. I don't know about you, but I had maybe 2-3 years experience with RPGs back in highschool, and I had consumed maybe about five dozen books or series relevant enough for me to brainstorm solutions with them. Today, I have about two decades of RPG experience and I've consumed about five times that much fictional content in other media. I've taken a university literature class on Sherlock Holmes, for instance (one of the few university classes I took which was worth the tuition).

I just don't approach roleplaying the same way I used to, and supplements don't really fit how I play the game. I'm not going to say I outgrew them, but I certainly outgrew the style of supplements I'm familiar with.

HappyDaze

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2022, 02:39:56 PM »
There's also the matter that only one company on earth can really sell supplements in enough volume to be remotely worth it; WotC. Every other company or publisher out there is probably going to get edition sales in the same order of magnitude as D&D's supplement sales.
Modiphius is currently selling several lines of RPG products, some with many supplements (Conan and Star Trek are the largest) and shows no sign of flipping an edition to up their sales.

Fheredin

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2022, 04:01:08 PM »
There's also the matter that only one company on earth can really sell supplements in enough volume to be remotely worth it; WotC. Every other company or publisher out there is probably going to get edition sales in the same order of magnitude as D&D's supplement sales.
Modiphius is currently selling several lines of RPG products, some with many supplements (Conan and Star Trek are the largest) and shows no sign of flipping an edition to up their sales.

That's not quite what I'm saying; I don't have the sales figures, but if I had to guess, I would wager that Modiphius's Editions sales for these IPs is probably in the same ballpark as the D&D Supplements, meaning that the supplement sales make sense for WotC, but Modiphius supplements (which obviously have fewer sales than the Edition itself) are probably both using a highly efficient supplement release model, and are probably still close to break-even.

Zalman

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2022, 10:47:55 AM »
Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, most of us were highschoolers.

Hm, I wonder if you're vastly underestimating the average poster's age around here. Plenty of us were in high school 20 years earlier than that, and are now working with 40+ years of gaming under our belts. (Which only emphasizes your point, just FYI  ;) )
Old School? Back in my day we just called it "School."

Fheredin

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2022, 09:25:25 PM »
Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, most of us were highschoolers.

Hm, I wonder if you're vastly underestimating the average poster's age around here. Plenty of us were in high school 20 years earlier than that, and are now working with 40+ years of gaming under our belts. (Which only emphasizes your point, just FYI  ;) )

Point conceded.

Ruprecht

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2022, 06:47:23 PM »
AD&D might be unique but I suspect a lot of players bought books intended for DMs like the Monster Manual.
Lots of gamers are completists and a lot are mini-maxers. I wouldn't doubt it they bought up the DM's Guide as well.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. ~Robert E. Howard

rway218

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2022, 01:22:20 PM »
This post makes me wonder if you’ve actually read the AD&D PH and DMG, because I have my 1980 copies right here, which I have owned for over 40 years, and they both begin quite clearly with a discussion of what D&D is/what RPGs are.
There is not "what is an rpg?" title in the books, anywhere. The PHB has a Foreword saying that D&D is awesome and a good player should have their shit together. It has a Preface saying that D&D is awesome and Gygax thought about it a lot, also it's your game play it however you like. Then there's an Introduction where it says that D&D is awesome and the game is balanced and well thought-out, and you will start crap and get better. Then there's a The Game section which says that D&D is awesome and it's a fantasy game and you will start crap and get better and the player should have their shit together.

The closest we get to a "what is an rpg?" section is a single sentence, "as a role player, you become Falstaff the Fighter."

So, not really.

Having a "what is an rpg?" section in a rulebook in 2021 is like having a "what is pornography?" section on the first page of a porn site. They know already, that's why they're there.

It's redundant. Cut it out.

218 Games! has a section called "What is our Role-Playing Game?" because of the different styles (e.g. storytelling, OSR, and Hybrid) that are in the market.  It is four paragraphs.  We all know what a game is, but its nice to know what the game we are reading considers itself.

finarvyn

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Re: Are GM books done now except for D&D?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2022, 08:39:17 AM »
I like it when RPGs break the material into a player's and a GM's book.

(1) Most games nowadays are getting thicker and thicker, so thinner books are easier to manage.

(2) Most games have part that the players shouldn't have access to, and so it makes sense to have it in a GM book.

The only GM books outside of D&D that I can think of are the  Castle Keeper’s Guide (Troll Lord Games), and the Referee’s Guide (Lame tatikns of the Flame Princess).  Both games are based on D&D, but the books are great for new Game Masters.  Castle Keeper’s Guide is comparable to the original DMG in its quality and usefulness.
The newest Call of Cthulhu RPG has a Keeper's Guide. That fills the same role.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 08:42:36 AM by finarvyn »
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