Quote from: Amalgam;576237Ah, i must have misread, i thought someone was saying it HAD been done, hence my suggestion.
 
In fact, it has been done, though i've no idea if it has been done on PnP games, Phantasy Star handles PC death this way, with a cloning operation in each town run by the "Clone Clown". (creepy dude...)

Huh, I remember that. I played I, II and IV in the series (just couldn't get into III) - I was very fond of it.

OK I did a quick rerun through the thread and I've collated all the stuff into a word document, which is still of course enormously very messy and incomplete but which gives a starting point e.g. there a skill lists and stats and things. I've commented in places where I've proposed something or modified something slightly from the original thread content...we can either fight about things back here in this thread or have wikipedia-style Edit Wars in the document from version to version......ok, hopefully not.
 
I've tried to use Styles in places and added a Table of Contents for navigation, although it won't really be needed until/unless the document grows bigger. If anyone wants to fiddle with more advanced formatting or has any other ideas be my guest; I'm out for a bit now, sorry.
 
 Word doc is linked here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sq5mkqqegb69ool

As I have been writng stuff up and reading through BJSs notes a few things have occurred.

i) Planets.  I would like to restrict it to one world. I know we kind of agreed this above but the notes still refer to 2 -  New Eden and Noah's World.

ii) Colonists - I was going to make the colonists an elite type of Human thus giving them some stat benefits. In addition when I thought about it it made sense that with genetic detailing going on they would have clone human bodies to move to. It also made sense that there should be an option to allow them to try genetic enhancement. Its nice to make this random I think. Also from that I postulated that pure humans would be socially superior to those who opted for genetic variation known as the Altered. This would be mental adaption as the physical stuff is separate. It therefore might link to Psionics.... Just opening up that opition as I ran through, I kind of thought that a PC might risk a mental alteration and would then make a roll and consult a table. The same is true for their current body. I think these variations should be random but I will include a point buy option.

iii) Derived stats. I would like to add some derived stats. I know these are sometimes contenscious but it makes sense for an elephant adapted body to have more wounds than a human or a rat for example.
I would like the derived stats to be :
Health/Wounds  = 5 + Size (where size varies from 1 to 10) with Human as a 5 and that being the most common size. Size is set per morph type and counteracts with agility.
Co-ordination = average of Perception + Agility . I didn't like the idea that agility covered co-ordination and balance and I like the fact that a high Perception (mental stat) can recover the poor agility of a new body.
Luck - BSJ listed this as an optional mental stat, I want to make it a derived stat used as a game balancer. So its computed from taking the other 6 core stats (Perception, Intelligence, Nerve, Agility, Strength, Endurance) totalling them and subtracting from 30 then dividing by 6 round up. So if a PC has very poor stats they will have a high luck to compensate. In play Luck could be used either to determine a starting about of bennies/hero points etc or as an alternate stat you can make a skill check with once per 'scene'. I use the term 'scene' because its already a meta stat and it saves any complex time keeping type process.

Please consider

Quote from: jibbajibba;576800As I have been writng stuff up and reading through BJSs notes a few things have occurred.
 
i) Planets. I would like to restrict it to one world. I know we kind of agreed this above but the notes still refer to 2 - New Eden and Noah's World.
 
ii) Colonists - I was going to make the colonists an elite type of Human thus giving them some stat benefits. In addition when I thought about it it made sense that with genetic detailing going on they would have clone human bodies to move to. It also made sense that there should be an option to allow them to try genetic enhancement. Its nice to make this random I think. Also from that I postulated that pure humans would be socially superior to those who opted for genetic variation known as the Altered. This would be mental adaption as the physical stuff is separate. It therefore might link to Psionics.... Just opening up that opition as I ran through, I kind of thought that a PC might risk a mental alteration and would then make a roll and consult a table. The same is true for their current body. I think these variations should be random but I will include a point buy option.
 
iii) Derived stats. I would like to add some derived stats. I know these are sometimes contenscious but it makes sense for an elephant adapted body to have more wounds than a human or a rat for example.
I would like the derived stats to be :
Health/Wounds = 5 + Size (where size varies from 1 to 10) with Human as a 5 and that being the most common size. Size is set per morph type and counteracts with agility.
Co-ordination = average of Perception + Agility . I didn't like the idea that agility covered co-ordination and balance and I like the fact that a high Perception (mental stat) can recover the poor agility of a new body.
Luck - BSJ listed this as an optional mental stat, I want to make it a derived stat used as a game balancer. So its computed from taking the other 6 core stats (Perception, Intelligence, Nerve, Agility, Strength, Endurance) totalling them and subtracting from 30 then dividing by 6 round up. So if a PC has very poor stats they will have a high luck to compensate. In play Luck could be used either to determine a starting about of bennies/hero points etc or as an alternate stat you can make a skill check with once per 'scene'. I use the term 'scene' because its already a meta stat and it saves any complex time keeping type process.
 
Please consider

OK, just one planet then...In that case the Intro section can be dropped out, and both world descriptions need to be sort of squeezed together into one new world description.
 
I think a Size stat could work. I guess if possible I'd prefer a 1-5 scale the same as the other attributes but that may not give enough range to represent everything.
Another option would be to replace the Strength attribute with a Size attribute, and then have a particular Size be a pre-requisite for a given race.
i.e. if you might need a 2 to be a human or a 5 to be an elephantman.
What that does, is make sure that some races aren't intrinsically better than others due to getting extra Size points.
 
Like the Coordination idea, and the Luck idea seems OK - this fits in better with the current 3 physical;3 mental model. It would mean that changing bodies can cost Luck points, if your physicals improve.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;576977OK, just one planet then...In that case the Intro section can be dropped out, and both world descriptions need to be sort of squeezed together into one new world description.
 
I think a Size stat could work. I guess if possible I'd prefer a 1-5 scale the same as the other attributes but that may not give enough range to represent everything.
Another option would be to replace the Strength attribute with a Size attribute, and then have a particular Size be a pre-requisite for a given race.
i.e. if you might need a 2 to be a human or a 5 to be an elephantman.
What that does, is make sure that some races aren't intrinsically better than others due to getting extra Size points.
 
Like the Coordination idea, and the Luck idea seems OK - this fits in better with the current 3 physical;3 mental model. It would mean that changing bodies can cost Luck points, if your physicals improve.

My idea with the Hybrids is that you select a body type. So you choose to be a Ratman, or a Murine to give it what be its technical name. The Murine get Size 2, but they get a bonus of +2 to Agility, they also get a tail, sensory bonuses that help improve observation checks, and some minor natural weaponry. Elephantine (I prefere a better word but ... latin is a bugger like that) get Size 9 but -2 Agility, they also get natural weapons, tusks, and a trunk.

My plan is to have a pool of about 10 points used to build each hybrid phenomorph. The rules will provide seven or so most common;  Canine (great infantry troops), Feline (great sleath and agility), Bovine (strength and endurance), Murine (used for scouts and infiltration), Saurines (just cos lizards are cool), Aqualine (they won't be able to fly owing to the weight lift ratio but will be pilots or whatever) and Porcine (again good soldiers and make them the guys that do tech support). The GM (NOT THE PLAYER) can then construct more unusual phenomorphs Elephantine, Leonine, Piscine, Vulpine etc using the kit.

The Logic behind it being that the first scientists used the animal DNA they had to create the base phenomorphs which make up the majority of the population but then they experimented using the ARC (oh new thing the ARC is the Archived Resource for Colonisation its a set of raw data and materials that was sent on world with the first colonists)    DNA resources that the first colonists had bought with them to populate the planet with animals once terraforming had completed.
Once the scientists realised that they needed labour to complete their work and morally they couldn't create human clone slaves, they uplifted some of the animal DNA to create the hybrids. When the war broke out they started turning these hybrids into soldiers. At that point they started dipping into the DNA samples and pulling out all sorts of crazy stuff, like units of Panthers, Leonine colonels, etc etc ....

So in character generation the way I see it there will be 3 choice points
i) Human or Hybrid?
ii) If Human do you want to risk Alteration? - random roll
iii) If Hybrid which phenomorph do you pick?

Then you generate your stats through point buy or random roll - I am in favour of the physical stats being generated slightly differently from mental. I would prefer point buy for mental and random for physical with humans and hybrids using different tables (each Hybrid will have their own tables).

Then you select an occupation and from that you get a skill list to buy or roll from. Both options presented buying being I suspect the most commonly used.
Some occupations will be restricted to certain 'races' Typically Scientists will all be human as will the political classes. Other types will still have cross over skills. Hybrids will be restricted in their career choices.  

just some ideas.

The animal hybrid system sounds like TMNT crossed with Justifiers.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;577135The animal hybrid system sounds like TMNT crossed with Justifiers.

Never heard of justifiers and I guess it has anthropomorhised animals so TMNT is going to get a nod although I only read that once back about 20 years ago.
It is actually closer to the 2000AD strips Meltdown Man and Rogue Trooper from the 80s. But since I spent a lot of time reading 2000AD... what you going to do

I suspect there are very few totally original ideas especially considering how many d20 game settings I saw for sale at genCon in the buy 1 get 3 free stand. I can't recall an RPG where you can switch bodies int he middel of a combat really easily nore can i think of one where physical stats become somewhat moot as you can drop and replace them at will. There must be some robot based games or games hwere you play ghosts that posess people but I can not familiar with them. Likewise a game where death has no real meaning unless you get a TPK, well apart from high level D&D of course

I'm well behind on catching up so can't offer too much at the moment. I like the idea of animal/hybrid species types. I made a homebrew game along those lines when the first Thundercats cartoon came along, with Lions having strength and speed, tigers even more so, gorillas having great strength, wolves stealth and cunning etc.

I'd guess in the future all sides wouldn't be above using whatever tactics they thought would win them the war, so that might be genetically enhanced troopers resistant to anything chemical or biological the enemy could toss at them (and kept in line by only being able to eat a grey mush or they starve to death), animal/human hybrids trained and bred for one purpose only - to kill, cyborgs with automated parts that can be used remotely by the army generals, troops that die - and are reborn into a new body, regardless of the consequences of seeing their own death time and again and so on.

Factions could be offshoots of Earths original colonists sen out to the stars, all fighting over a planet that has a recurring valuable resource that can be mined for vast profit/power (Avatar style).

Heck, why not do an Avatar game with the serials filed off. Watch the movie for inspiration, then go nuts with crazy deadly creatures that want to eat you.

I'm gonna be behind for a while. Things keep seeming to come up (mom's in the hospital now and her recovery from the surgery isn't going well in this case) so I might have to sit this one out for a while as I haven't even been able to advance on my own project. I pretty much (between staying at the hospital and work) only have enough time to make angry posts on various forums online. So I'm not gonna have the a full write up on the 7 factions done as I had planned until I can hammer out a schedule again.

Hope your mom gets well soon Mguy. Just had my mother in the hospital for surgery and she ended up getting sepsis (thankfully she is okay now) so I feel for you.

Sorry to hear it, MGuy. Best wishes.

On the project itself, will try to do some more on the weekend.

Best wishes and hopes for a speedy recovery.

Prayers for the ill family chaps, if you take them.

What else needs to be done? for the game that I might take a look at, seems like everyone is going full speed...and I'm left in the dust as I'm worrying about my own projects.

Going back over it areas of the game that seem to have the most holes at this stage are:
*equipment
*setting intro needing a re-write
*combat chapter will need lots more work, I think.
 
I've gone back over the document so far and have re-uploaded a version 1.1
http://www.mediafire.com/?sb9fhm95oq92hor
 
In this I've removed the setting stuff at the start, added JibbaJibba's suggested derived attributes, expanded the morale rules suggestions into some more solid rules there, listed controlling attributes for skills and added/renamed a couple of skills - combat skills in particular probably need some more thought. Fooled around in disadvantages and combat e.g. started a list of attack roll modifiers. Mostly minor changes.
 
The things I've commented are questions in my mind - these currently include:
*stat costs -should a minimum stat cost 0 rather than 1?
*whether being unarmoured adding a damage bonus makes sense to people? (idea I had to cut down on the math).
*combat skills - how specific should these be?
*whether all characters should get some skills for free?
*separate Listen & Spot skills (current setup) or a single Awareness skill?
*the haste system/initiative?
*increased armour penetration for lasers?
*should a failed Nerve roll make a PC run away, or is this too much interference with player control of the PC?
 
Incidentally, if someone else does want to go and modify the whole document for whatever reason, whether adding or deleting or modifying or formatting or whatever, I'm cool with that - they could pass back to me via email and I can re-upload, or whatever else works for them.
 
Thanks again everyone for your help so far.

Hi, i'm reading through the Mediafire download at the moment, and saw a note on avians perhaps using antigravity.

I have a different solution:
Regular avians tend to be small, and they also have hollow bones in order to be lightweight.
Essentially, define movement as usual (whatever you decide on, since it isn't settled), but reduce any flight move for avians by the total amount in strength + endurance.
Yes, this may result in zero or less flight move, but it is still important when considering any antigrav-tech (see below).
Glide move may also be affected, but with a notably less amount.

Antigrav-tech may still be possible, but it may be costly, and more weight means higher cost.