Quote from: WarthurYou really, truly feel that D&D is threatened by tiny games with very small print runs put out by impassioned amateurs, games which almost certainly won't survive their original creators, don't you?

Hey, I'll go beyond dismissing that.  I don't even think that Sorceror is threatened by D&D.

Nothing that D&D does prevents anyone from playing Sorceror.  If people want to play Sorceror then they leave their D&D books at home, and it's very much as if D&D didn't even exist.

Yes, in many cases people asked "Do you want to play Sorceror?" will say "Nah ... we'd rather play D&D instead."  In some cases it may even go vice-versa.  That's not people being prevented from playing the game they want, it's people choosing the game they want from multiple good alternatives.

The poor guy who wanted to play Sorceror and can't find anyone who wants to play it with him?  Tough luck on him.  He's offering an alternative that isn't as good as the other things his friends can find to do.  He shouldn't get people to play with him.  It is right and proper for him not to have a group to play with.

The idea of a "war" between RPGs isn't merely ridiculous in practice.  It is ridiculous even in concept.

Quote from: WarthurWow. Just wow.

You and Ron Edwards really are very much alike aside from your gaming tastes, do you realise that? (Ron got laughed at on the Forge when he wheeled out his paranoid war analogies too.)

Funny how you never see the two together, isn't it?

Circles within circles . . . .

Oooh. A red 'x' contained in a box....within a box!

That's some edgy shit, jrients.

Quote from: Christmas ApeOooh. A red 'x' contained in a box....within a box!

That's some edgy shit, jrients.

Fuck!  It worked in the preview!  Just click on the link in my sig and you'll see it.

Ah, you're a big wimp, Jeff!  You made a vanishingly small point of intersection between the boders of the three categories, so that you don't have to take a stand on whether there is such a thing as Manly Man Hippy Forge LARPs or whether there isn't.  My eyes hurt from squinting now, and I blame you

Quote from: TonyLBAh, you're a big wimp, Jeff!  You made a vanishingly small point of intersection between the boders of the three categories, so that you don't have to take a stand on whether there is such a thing as Manly Man Hippy Forge LARPs or whether there isn't.  My eyes hurt from squinting now, and I blame you

A little ambiguity makes life interesting.  Or I slopped that chart together quickly and wasn't really paying attention.  Whichever works better for you.

Quote from: RPGPunditI happen to hold that his use of that term is highly unfortunate, as it was immediately glommed onto by the Swine in order to denigrate and marginalize mainstream games.

...and we must protect our precious bodily fluids!

!i!

Quote from: SettembriniYou might say: the adventure RPGs/thematic RPGs distinction is giving too much merit to the thematic games. You might even say that acknowledging Thematic games to be RPGs at all is dangerous in your crusade. But that doesn´t make the facts go away. And the fact is, that Thematic Games share a method with other RPGs: Negotiation as a technique for advancing a fictious situation. And the are used for leisure. So they are Games.
Like fucking Settlers is a boardgame and my beloved Dune is a boardgame. They are not the same ballpark, but they share methods. This is how much similarities exist, and this is where they end. Different for every game.

Once, in your online persona you could admit that you were wrong. In that you attribute this terminology to the forge.
It´s mine.
Mine mine mine.
You might hate it.
But it remains mine.
And nobody elses.
Label me a swine, tell me I´m a moron for even making the attempt.
But let other people out of it, as they had nothing to do with the term.
It´s mine.

Ok, that's hip, it was you and all you that invented the term "Adventure games".

Now you admit that it was a mistake to do so, because you just gave Ron Edwards and his ilk another tool by which to argue that mainstream RPGs aren't really "real RPGs" at all, and conceded ground that we have desperately fought to maintain in asserting that OUR games are RPGs, and theirs are not.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditNow you admit that it was a mistake to do so, because you just gave Ron Edwards and his ilk another tool by which to argue that mainstream RPGs aren't really "real RPGs" at all, and conceded ground that we have desperately fought to maintain in asserting that OUR games are RPGs, and theirs are not.

Yeah!  Because you having fun with your games is completely dependent upon having told other people what to do and how to think!  You've got to win the war for words or else ... uh ...

Shit.  Wait.  Lost my train of thought.  What's the bad thing that happens to you if you don't fight this war?

Quote from: WarthurWow. Just wow.

You and Ron Edwards really are very much alike aside from your gaming tastes, do you realise that? (Ron got laughed at on the Forge when he wheeled out his paranoid war analogies too.)

You really, truly feel that D&D is threatened by tiny games with very small print runs put out by impassioned amateurs, games which almost certainly won't survive their original creators, don't you?

Exactly how can Sorcerer and DiTV have a hope in hell of toppling D&D?

Hey, here's the deal, you make up YOUR mind first. Either:

1. Forge games are the inevitable wave of the future and I'm a quixotic "idiot" for wanting to resist that wave.

or

2. Forge games are insignificant and I'm paranoid for thinking they could ever have any effect that would change our hobby whatsoever.

Have a vote or something. Once you've figured it out for yourself, exactly where you stand, then you can come and explain to me exactly which of the two I'm supposed to respond to. Ok?

Stupid fucker.

RPGPundit

I'll take C for the block, Alex.

C)  Forge games are new.  Some people embrace them because they're faddish.  Some people reject them because they're new and NEW IS SCARY.  The wargamers did the same thing with D&D and decades later I still know guys who play frickin' World in Flames and Europa.

Quote from: TonyLBShit.  Wait.  Lost my train of thought.  What's the bad thing that happens to you if you don't fight this war?

See the late nineties, when a tiny minority of ideologically-minded elitists managed through a combination of luck, circumstance, and forethought to get control of the entire creative-direction of RPGs, and ran them into the ground.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditSee the late nineties, when a tiny minority of ideologically-minded elitists managed through a combination of luck, circumstance, and forethought to get control of the entire creative-direction of RPGs, and ran them into the ground.

Oh, right!  That's why nobody plays D&D any more.  White Wolf killed it dead.

Wait.  No.  That's not right either.

Quote from: jrientsI'll take C for the block, Alex.

C)  Forge games are new.  Some people embrace them because they're faddish.  Some people reject them because they're new and NEW IS SCARY.  The wargamers did the same thing with D&D and decades later I still know guys who play frickin' World in Flames and Europa.

I'm not "scared" of Forge games, I'm disgusted by them.

I understand them, and that is why I find them despicable.

And those who are part of the Forge that tell you that it would not be their fondest wish for "their" type of gaming to dominate the hobby are simply lying to you.  The only difference between me wanting them out and them wanting me out is that I'm not two-faced about it.

RPGPundit