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Author Topic: "Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon  (Read 11356 times)

Zalmoxis

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #105 on: December 04, 2006, 12:11:43 PM »
I don't really see what the big deal is. They're all games...

Sethwick

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #106 on: December 13, 2006, 06:47:53 PM »
Ironically, despite Nisarg's opinion of Nobilis, all this paranoid ranting about war and such would make for a really awesome game of Nobilis. You are the Noble of RPGs and must defend from nettles from the creation of games like Universalis.
 

The Yann Waters

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2006, 09:14:01 PM »
Quote from: Sethwick
Ironically, despite Nisarg's opinion of Nobilis, all this paranoid ranting about war and such would make for a really awesome game of Nobilis. You are the Noble of RPGs and must defend from nettles from the creation of games like Universalis.
Nettling that classic Bond, "The Sanctity of His Estate"? In the long run, there might possibly be more mileage in some tech-savvy Excrucian using online freeform play to corrupt the idea that games must have rules, though.
Previously known by the name of "GrimGent".

Sethwick

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #108 on: December 13, 2006, 09:59:44 PM »
Quote from: GrimGent
Nettling that classic Bond, "The Sanctity of His Estate"? In the long run, there might possibly be more mileage in some tech-savvy Excrucian using online freeform play to corrupt the idea that games must have rules, though.

Indeed... There are lots of ways one could do it. I just thought it's funny that, as someone who usually has trouble thinking of Nobilis ideas, I suddenly flashed on one while reading, of all things, RPGPundit posts.
 

Melan

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #109 on: March 07, 2007, 03:14:20 AM »
This RPG.NET thread is a veritable treasure trove of the semantical fuckery that brought us the "adventure game" term. I get the same vibe from it when some Americans trot out the old "it is a republic, not a democracy" horse, usually to make some bizarre point about democrats. Prime swine material.
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Koltar

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #110 on: March 07, 2007, 05:43:22 AM »
Quote from: Andy K
That's correct, Settembrini was the first person who started making the distinction between Adventure Games as a subset of RPGs.

So now Settembrini, too, is a "Swine" and a "Fucker".

One of us. One of us. One of us.



 Actually  - maybe not.

 I heard the term "Adventure Game" used in that way back in the late 1980s. Maybe this stuff goes in cycles, maybe not.  But its not a recent phenomena.

- E.W.C.
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Christmas Ape

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #111 on: March 07, 2007, 05:50:36 AM »
I'm still churning through that thread, but....

E., if you're reading this, you're probably one of my three favorite posters on the internet. That was gold.
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Koltar

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #112 on: March 07, 2007, 05:59:50 AM »
Quote from: Settembrini
No my dear paranoid friend.
That´s totally revisionist history. it was me, who came up with the distinction, long before ever meeting with Ron. And it was me, who on your very blog, convinced several people of it´s  (Adventure Roleplaying Game, as in Roleplaying Games that share stuff with all other Adventure Games, except the main method used.) merits.

And it was fucking me, who went and convinced Ron, Eoru, Clinton R. Nixon and the german forgers of it´s existance and it´s use in online discussion.
Not that they really use it. But they understood and acknowledged that I use that term and not their terminology. It´s fucking only me and Jack who think this is really a good term. And Jack seems to have left town.

Really Pundit, revisionist history par excellence. And useless. It was on your very blog, where the first discussions happened. Way before your indicated "chitchat". It´s my fucking internet agenda to promote that term, and the term thematic roleplaying instead of misleading "forgie" or "indie".

Man, I hope this is a clever scheme to popularize my agenda.

If you are honest about what you are writing, your memory is lacking, or you are a blatant liar for whatever reasons.

But: You have always stated that only Adventure RPGs may claim the title of RPGs. I have clearly shown in the story;game thread, that the thing holding together RPGs is mainly a shared method. The fact that you equal RPGs with Adventure RPGs is a historic artifact. Nothing more nothing less. Your extreme position may have it´s merits, as you don´t want to give a single inch over to your enemies. So be it. But be honest about it. Don´t tell blatant lies, where youself have been around how it really went.

You might say: the adventure RPGs/thematic RPGs distinction is giving too much merit to the thematic games. You might even say that acknowledging Thematic games to be RPGs at all is dangerous in your crusade. But that doesn´t make the facts go away. And the fact is, that Thematic Games share a method with other RPGs: Negotiation as a technique for advancing a fictious situation. And the are used for leisure. So they are Games.
Like fucking Settlers is a boardgame and my beloved Dune is a boardgame. They are not the same ballpark, but they share methods. This is how much similarities exist, and this is where they end. Different for every game.

Once, in your online persona you could admit that you were wrong. In that you attribute this terminology to the forge.
It´s mine.
Mine mine mine.
You might hate it.
But it remains mine.
And nobody elses.
Label me a swine, tell me I´m a moron for even making the attempt.
But let other people out of it, as they had nothing to do with the term.
It´s mine.



 Now wait a minute here ..
 There was a magazine in the mid 1980s called ADVENTURE GAMING  mnagazine. It was was published and edited by Tim Kask.  He had an editorial in the 1st or 2nd issue of the magazine defining use of the term  "Adventure Games".  Who is Tim Kask? He worked on or did some playtesting on D&D in the 1970s. Take a look at the credits inside the AD&D  player's handbook - his name is supposed to be there.

You might not be as original as you think you are.

- E.W.C.

A link to covers and descriptions of Adventure Gaming magazine : http://www.waynesbooks.com/RPGMagazines.html#agm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

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Calithena

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #113 on: March 07, 2007, 10:31:43 AM »
Tim Kask was, among other things, the original editor of Dragon magazine.

I don't know what to do about this site. Pundit spreads hate, and it's his site. We benefit him, raise his reputation, and possibly make him money by being here.

On the other hand, his rant starting off this thread was pretty funny. And there are a lot of people here, sometimes including Pundit, who can be entertaining to talk to about very many topics.
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Koltar

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #114 on: March 07, 2007, 10:46:27 AM »
I don't see the "Hate".

 Tim Kask ? He used to live in this area when he was publishing ADVENTURE GAMING magazine . Thats why I met the guy when I was still a teenager. I remember him smoking pipes, him and Pundit have that in common.

 Cal, aren't you a Forge member or promoter ? You're one of the few names I recognized when I visited that site recently.

 I think that Pundit  in his own cussword-filled, sarcastic and curmudgeonly own way is juist trying to promote RPGs as FUN(!) or ways that they can be a blasting good time.

 I don't really see the "hate". There are a few posters on here that say hateful things sometimes....but I'm not thnking of Pundit as one of them . He did say a few things that pissed me off before I joined ...but thats only because he might have been mis-informed on a few things. Not a big deal really.

- E.W.C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Pierce Inverarity

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #115 on: March 07, 2007, 03:28:40 PM »
Koltar, considered merely by itself the term "adventure game" is nearly as empty as the term "fun." Both have been used ever since the Neanderthals invented role-playing. Whereas AFAIK Settembrini intends a specific meaning, borrowed from the genre of the "adventure novel" (aka Picaresque novel, I guess?). Claims to precedence etc. should be based on how closely those earlier definitions match up with his.

Actually, I wouldn't mind hearing about his, coz I'm not following at this point.
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jrients

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2007, 04:26:31 PM »
Quote from: Koltar
Cal, aren't you a Forge member or promoter ? You're one of the few names I recognized when I visited that site recently.


Calithena is not a Forge partisan.
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JongWK

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #117 on: March 07, 2007, 04:49:32 PM »
Quote from: Calithena
and possibly make him money by being here.


I don't remember Pundit making any money with this website.
"I give the gift of endless imagination."
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Settembrini

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2007, 03:25:20 AM »
That quote is taken quite out of context.
Later in the same thread I go on to say that "Adventure Game" was even proposed by no one else than Dave Weseley himself.

And yes, all covers of old Dragon Mags say Aventure Game too.

My point in the quote was to refute Pundit´s claim that Adventure Game is a Forge terminology, or one that came up in discussion with forgers.

It´s not my invention (in english), but it´s well defined use  in current internet debate is my pet-peeve, and no one elses agenda.

That was the point. Of course I cannot claim to have created the term in a literal sense. It´s the history of the words that lead me to believe that it´s meritful to use it instead of

"trad"
"mainstream"
"conventional"

Because if you use those, it´s a win for the Swine-folks, who want to be different to feel better. By being "modern", "unorthodox" and "avantgarde".

Neither is Adventure Gaming in any way "old" or "conventional" nor are any Thematic or New Style or Forger games "modern" or "more advanced".

At least not per se, just by merit of belonging to any category.
If there can't be a TPK against the will of the players it's not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

Brantai

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"Adventure Game" is NOT acceptable Jargon
« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2007, 01:38:40 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
So if someone really wants to defend this term, tell me why it should be accepted as Jargon; especially now that its clear the Swine have leaped on it as yet another effort to subvert mainstream RPGs as a hobby?

If "adventure games" and "story games" became the accepted norm terminology-wise, I could make a list of my hobbies without having to explain to anyone that it's not the kind of role playing where someone's been a naughty schoolgirl and teacher has to give her a spanking.
That's all I can come up with. :ponder: