I've been trying to see what the fuss is with the MCDM rpg given how massive the crowdfunding campaign ended up and it's been difficult to find deep dives on the mechanics as a non-backer/non-patron that don't feel like marketing.   Supposedly the victory points in the game progress with each successful encounter/challenge and somehow power other abilities or somesuch to help counterbalance the typical draining of resources you typically see in successive encounters.  Can someone explain how this mechanic works?   Does anyone know of other RPGs with a similar mechanic that increases with successive encounters rather than being depleted?

I don't think from the description that the MCDM rpg is going to be my style as someone who wasn't a fan of 4e (and who prefers low fantasy/sword and sorcery flavors of fantasy most) but I could see that aspect being someone useful enough to port over to other games.

As I've been paying attention, I think I've seen at least three distinct iterations of testing material for the MCDM game talked about and partially presented.  A common theme has been mini games and meta currencies.  That team really seems to like very gamey styles of RPGs. 

A similar, though simpler, type of mechanic is used in the 2D20 system by Modiphius.  Basically, with successes you get tokens that can be spent later to improve future checks.

In one iteration of the game I saw, each class has a spell book, so to speak, and the spell slots or spell points are bought the victory points meta currency.  As an example, A paladin would have access to smite only after he acquired a victory point and then he can turn that victory point into a smite.  The idea is that they would create a heroic cascading success, somewhat like a power combo in a fighting video game.

Quote from: BadApple on January 16, 2024, 08:53:07 PM
As I've been paying attention, I think I've seen at least three distinct iterations of testing material for the MCDM game talked about and partially presented.  A common theme has been mini games and meta currencies.  That team really seems to like very gamey styles of RPGs. 

A similar, though simpler, type of mechanic is used in the 2D20 system by Modiphius.  Basically, with successes you get tokens that can be spent later to improve future checks.

In one iteration of the game I saw, each class has a spell book, so to speak, and the spell slots or spell points are bought the victory points meta currency.  As an example, A paladin would have access to smite only after he acquired a victory point and then he can turn that victory point into a smite.  The idea is that they would create a heroic cascading success, somewhat like a power combo in a fighting video game.

Thanks and, yeah, I forgot about Modiphius' 2d20.  I bought some of their Star Trek books but stopped following them once they sent me a marketing email proudly announcing they were raising money to bail out violent rioters from jail in 2020.   In that case, it was more of a general pool for the party to power generic options, correct?  It's been a few years.

With MCDM, do you spend the victory point when you use that ability?  Because I also heard an offhand mention on a youtube video that they get turned into XP on a long rest as well.  I suppose given that you said that it's still majorly in flux both could be true at different times.

edit:  Just listened to this video that had two concrete examples.  In the first one (a marshal buffing type character), the victory points added to damage in a triggered reaction attack and the other (rogue type character) was specifically mentioned as a damage buff once per encounter only.  I don't know if the former was also a once per encounter thing that just wasn't mentioned or if it was a passive ability.

It's not a completely novel concept. Back in the 1990s, Torg had mechanics that favored building your hands of cards and accumulating Possibility points for clutch battles.

Quote from: pawsplay on January 17, 2024, 01:32:25 PM
It's not a completely novel concept. Back in the 1990s, Torg had mechanics that favored building your hands of cards and accumulating Possibility points for clutch battles.

Thanks.  I've never played TORG so have to go off of what the wiki says.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torg

Were those possibility points more like inspiration in D&D, willpower points in Forbidden Lands, or other metacurrencies in games that you have to earn via gameplay or did you start the session with them along with the cards?   Also, did they power/recharge existing abilities or grant completely new ones?   I've been thinking about this since I posted the question last night as there is a much muddier line between them all than I thought initially when posting.   I ask about the distinction because even simply resting (which recharges spent abilities and HP in part or completely) could be considered a boost of sorts though it's not "earned" like my initial question specified but rather just given out as a matter of course at the start of the adventuring day/period.

edit:  I also found the text of the ability (or at least one of the two) I mentioned being used above in my example from the gameplay stream.   I don't think I'd consider this as big of a deal as Colville was making it out to be in previously early/mid 2023 making the character more powerful with continued play.  If we've expended all the party's 4e healing surges/MCDM recoveries as well as all of the daily powers and the group is pressing for a rest, I'm not sure another one or two encounter single use damage buff powers will convince a group to keep adventuring without other extenuating circumstances (like the environment/threat level not allowing for a rest).

QuoteVICTORIES
Your hero's power increases throughout an adventure as you fight more battles and overcome other challenges, measured through a stat called Victories. At the start of an adventure, your hero has 0 Victories.
VICTORIES AFTER COMBAT
Each time your hero survives a combat encounter in which the party's objectives are achieved, your Victories increase by 1. The Director can decide that a trivially easy encounter doesn't increase a hero's Victories.
VICTORIES AFTER NONCOMBAT CHALLENGES
When your hero successfully overcomes a big challenge that doesn't involve combat, the Director can award you 1 Victory. Such challenges can include things like a particularly complicated and deadly trap, a negotiation, a complex test, a complicated puzzle, or the execution of a clever idea that avoids a battle.
VICTORIES RESET
Whenever you finish a rest (see Resting), your Victories are converted into Experience.
EXPERIENCE
Victories temporarily increase a hero's power during an adventure, but Experience (or XP) permanently improves their capabilities. Whenever you finish a rest, you gain XP equal to your Victories, then your Victories drop to 0. In other words, your Victories are converted to XP when you finish a rest.For more information on how XP increases your hero's power, see Heroic Advancement. (Playtest note: the section detailing heroic advancement doesn't exist yet.)

Here is the specific rule that applies to a Dwarf Tactician

Victory Benefits
You gain each of the following benefits once per encounter, but can use only one per turn:
• When an ally within 5  squares of you deals damage, they deal extra damage equal to your Victories.
• When an ally within 5 squares of you moves, they can move an extra number of squares up to your Victories.

Quote from: RNGm on January 17, 2024, 02:24:47 PM
Were those possibility points more like inspiration in D&D, willpower points in Forbidden Lands, or other metacurrencies in games that you have to earn via gameplay or did you start the session with them along with the cards?   

You started with a few Possibilities, which were a long-term resource. You gained them pretty much as the game's experience points, but they were mainly used to buy a bonus reroll to checks and to absorb damage. They are similar to Hero Points from DC Heroes or Karma from the old Marvel Super-Heroes RPG. You would earn a few at the end of each scene, a few from card play, and more at the end of a session or adventure. Apart from improving rolls and keeping you alive, they powered a handful of special powers, and they could be accumulated and spent to improve stats.

You got dealt a few cards at the start of each session. During the game, you would play them for special benefits, and you could redraw up to, I think, four, at the beginning of each scene. But the main focus was on using "approved actions" from the initiative deck to earn more cards, and trading those cards with other players to build hands that would maximize your character's impact. At the end of the session, you would turn in your cards, possibly earning small rewards for holding onto Drama cards, and you would start fresh next time.

Possibilities typically flow fast, but you want to save more than you spend for most scenes. So in a typical three-act adventure, you would hope to go into the climax still holding onto at least a half dozen and preferably a dozen Possibilities, holding four to eight cards, most of them pretty good. So when you attack the bad guy, you might be able to play a haste card to go twice, and then attack, spending a Possibility on each attack for a bonus die, plus a Hero Card, plus some other bonus. Ideally this would inflict enough damage to take the bad guy out, so on their behalf, the GM spends down their Possibilities, if it's possible, to keep them up. Most "normal" bad guys go down easily enough, but a High Lord or their favored minions might require depleting their Possibilities considerably before they are truly vulnerable.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.  They're definitely a boon from what you describe and you do earn them but I assume that when you use them that you also lose them (whether points or cards).  At least from my reading, the MCDM victory mechanic is linked to a 1/encounter ability and continues to increase with each encounter win or challenge you succeed at rather than being spent directly (until you rest).  You don't spend them per se but rather you exhaust the encounter power they're linked to though; the encounter power returns and the victory point total automatically increases after the encounter is won.   Admittedly it's a hair splitting distinction I'm only making now though and I appreciate you pointing out the TORG mechanics as I was completely unaware of them. 

Quote from: RNGm on January 17, 2024, 04:02:13 PM
Thanks for the detailed explanation.  They're definitely a boon from what you describe and you do earn them but I assume that when you use them that you also lose them (whether points or cards).  At least from my reading, the MCDM victory mechanic is linked to a 1/encounter ability and continues to increase with each encounter win or challenge you succeed at rather than being spent directly (until you rest).  You don't spend them per se but rather you exhaust the encounter power they're linked to though; the encounter power returns and the victory point total automatically increases after the encounter is won.   Admittedly it's a hair splitting distinction I'm only making now though and I appreciate you pointing out the TORG mechanics as I was completely unaware of them.

My group played through the starter adventure a few weeks ago.  I'll write something up tomorrow or so.  One thing that the metacurrency in MCDM does is augment already existing abilities.  For example, the "barbarian" type character gains 1d4 "rage" every round that they can spend on abilities.  They also gain one rage per victory at the beginning of each combat.  So, if you have to spend 3 rage to gain resistance to damage for the encounter, you have a 50/50 chance of rolling enough rage on your first encounter of the session.  After you win 2 encounters (which don't have to be combat), you start the first round of combat with 1d4+2 rage, so you are assured of buying resistance right off.  So the more encounters you go without resting, the sooner each combat you can use your cool abilities.  Once you rest, your victories get turned into xp and reset to zero.

The best part of this is that you get benefits from victories without losing the xp they represent.  I played Torg back in the day, and that was the worst thing about its metacurrency (I had the same complaint about karma in MSH).  If you use it in game, you don't get to use it for character advancement.  That's just a stupid mechanic.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 17, 2024, 11:09:45 PMMy group played through the starter adventure a few weeks ago.  I'll write something up tomorrow or so.  One thing that the metacurrency in MCDM does is augment already existing abilities.  For example, the "barbarian" type character gains 1d4 "rage" every round that they can spend on abilities.  They also gain one rage per victory at the beginning of each combat.  So, if you have to spend 3 rage to gain resistance to damage for the encounter, you have a 50/50 chance of rolling enough rage on your first encounter of the session.  After you win 2 encounters (which don't have to be combat), you start the first round of combat with 1d4+2 rage, so you are assured of buying resistance right off.  So the more encounters you go without resting, the sooner each combat you can use your cool abilities.  Once you rest, your victories get turned into xp and reset to zero.

The best part of this is that you get benefits from victories without losing the xp they represent.  I played Torg back in the day, and that was the worst thing about its metacurrency (I had the same complaint about karma in MSH).  If you use it in game, you don't get to use it for character advancement.  That's just a stupid mechanic.

Yeah, Symbaroum has a similar XP mechanic where you basically send your character's progression potential for rerolls in game and I'm not personally a fan of it either.  I do recognize the logic in that a reroll that saves your character from dying is better than dying with a boatload of unspent XP but personally I'd have preferred instead if a tiny portion of the total XP you earn counts towards rerolls that refresh over some set period.

Thanks for the info on the barbarian!  That version seems alot more impactful to me at least as opposed to a straight damage buff once per encounter while feels boring IMO.  If you do a write up of the system or even specifically of this mechanic across the classes, feel free to post it here or a link to its own thread here as I'd definitely be interested in reading it.  While the game itself isn't for me, that doesn't mean I can't learn or tweak some of its mechanics for my own benefit.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on January 17, 2024, 11:09:45 PM
The best part of this is that you get benefits from victories without losing the xp they represent.  I played Torg back in the day, and that was the worst thing about its metacurrency (I had the same complaint about karma in MSH).  If you use it in game, you don't get to use it for character advancement.  That's just a stupid mechanic.

It wasn't stupid for MSH. Superheroes are often relatively static in their abilities for years, even decades of publication history, but you do want to leave open the possibility of advancement. Some characters, obviously, do gain substantially in ability. Plus, it let characters of nominally different ability level hang together and do basically the same things, in the clutch. There are some definite downsides to that approach, but it worked well enough.