2 Things That Are Annoying To Design

Ghost Whistler · March 11, 2013, 04:13:39 PM

I'm trying to design rules for heavy weapons and vehicles.

Quite frankly they seem to be a massive pain in the ass. I Want these to be as simple as possible. But all the little things you seem to need to encompass can't be avoided without the most egregious handwaving. Then there's different types of vehciles (aircraft/cars/spaceships).

Ugh.

I don't know what to draw inspiration from here.

The Butcher · March 11, 2013, 04:44:51 PM

Treat them as characters, only operating on a diferent scale?

mcbobbo · March 11, 2013, 04:48:24 PM

Quote from: The Butcher;636187Treat them as characters, only operating on a diferent scale?

This technique gets used explicitly for damage with fair frequency, by the way. (d6)Star Wars, RIFTS, and Savage Worlds all use it in one form or another. So there's 'character scale' and 'heavy scale', and typically a crosswalk between them.

What other elements are you struggling with?

Silverlion · March 11, 2013, 05:11:21 PM

Quote from: The Butcher;636187Treat them as characters, only operating on a diferent scale?

This is how vehicles will work in my SF/Space Opera games derived from High Valor (E.O.N, Cold Chrome Knights, etc.) Of course they've different Feat pools and traits. (Hull/Body, Engine, Systems)

Ladybird · March 11, 2013, 07:42:22 PM

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;636170I'm trying to design rules for heavy weapons and vehicles.

Quite frankly they seem to be a massive pain in the ass. I Want these to be as simple as possible. But all the little things you seem to need to encompass can't be avoided without the most egregious handwaving. Then there's different types of vehciles (aircraft/cars/spaceships).

Ugh.

I don't know what to draw inspiration from here.

Do you want these rules, or do you need these rules? If vehicles in your game are just ways of getting from A to B, you don't need vehicle rules, and a car chase is just an opposed extended skill test. If vehicles are going to be a feature of combat, though, vehicles need to be able to interact with the skill check system (As a bonus or penalty, not an actor), the movement system, and the damage system (The driver can handle initiative).

In a sci-fi game especially, though, gearheads will happily get into building vehicles using whatever system you devise, which means it needs to be relatively solid. That's a sizable amount of work.

Ghost Whistler · March 12, 2013, 04:39:02 AM

Quote from: The Butcher;636187Treat them as characters, only operating on a diferent scale?

The scale thing is a good idea but it doesn't address the issues that arise from using vehciles: dealing with pursuits, acting on top of a moving train, etc. Anything else (like a simple bus journey from a to b) can just be narrated away.

Quote from: mcbobbo;636190What other elements are you struggling with?

The action stuff, and all the particulars. With regard to heavy weapons having to deal with tedious stuff that belongs in a table top wargame like blast radii, or collateral damage. You can't really ignore that stuff if you want to include these types of weapons.

Quote from: Ladybird;636227Do you want these rules, or do you need these rules? If vehicles in your game are just ways of getting from A to B, you don't need vehicle rules, and a car chase is just an opposed extended skill test. If vehicles are going to be a feature of combat, though, vehicles need to be able to interact with the skill check system (As a bonus or penalty, not an actor), the movement system, and the damage system (The driver can handle initiative).

In a sci-fi game especially, though, gearheads will happily get into building vehicles using whatever system you devise, which means it needs to be relatively solid. That's a sizable amount of work.

I don't want the rules, but they will be needed I fear. In a scifi setting this stuff is going to be required.

The Butcher · March 12, 2013, 06:58:35 AM

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;636353The scale thing is a good idea but it doesn't address the issues that arise from using vehciles: dealing with pursuits, acting on top of a moving train, etc.

For velhice pursuit, use the same rules with which you'd handle pursuit by foot.

As for being on top of a moving train I'd just go with "you've on top of a moving train, take a huge penalty to everything."

Ladybird · March 12, 2013, 09:42:16 AM

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;636353I don't want the rules, but they will be needed I fear. In a scifi setting this stuff is going to be required.

Remember : It will only be required if you let these things exist in the setting.

If you do not want to write these rules, and you can't work out how to hook vehicles into your core mechanics, don't let them exist, or just make them moving bits of scenery. There are plenty of other games that people who want sci-fi car chases can play.

Ghost Whistler · March 12, 2013, 01:55:02 PM

Quote from: Ladybird;636388Remember : It will only be required if you let these things exist in the setting.

If you do not want to write these rules, and you can't work out how to hook vehicles into your core mechanics, don't let them exist, or just make them moving bits of scenery. There are plenty of other games that people who want sci-fi car chases can play.

That's all true, however I just don't think I can forego that stuff in an SF kungfu game. It's just not cricket!

everloss · March 12, 2013, 03:01:59 PM

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;636170I'm trying to design rules for heavy weapons and vehicles.

Quite frankly they seem to be a massive pain in the ass. I Want these to be as simple as possible. But all the little things you seem to need to encompass can't be avoided without the most egregious handwaving. Then there's different types of vehciles (aircraft/cars/spaceships).

Ugh.

I don't know what to draw inspiration from here.

Familiar with Battletech?

It uses vague approximations for damage and size of weapons. For example, an Autocannon 20 is roughly equivalent to any kind of large-bore cannon, regardless of size of ammo or rate of fire. It has 5 shots per ton of ammo, but that can mean it has 5 gigantic shells, or 5 bursts of smaller shells. It's left purposely open to interpretation for fluff purposes, but mechanically is rather simple to use and understand.

everloss · March 12, 2013, 03:03:07 PM

Quote from: The Butcher;636365As for being on top of a moving train I'd just go with "you've on top of a moving train, take a huge penalty to everything."

Yeah, that's how I would do it too.