Forum > Articles

Military Conquest Doesn't Always End in Defeat

<< < (3/3)

AsenRG:

--- Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;964108 ---If by "still young" you mean an average of 13.5-17ish (older end of the spectrum in later time periods - partially because muskets take less training and partially because they needed more troopers).
--- End quote ---
Don't know what time periods you're referencing, but the usual time for taking a kid as devshirme was between 8 and 10 years old, I think. Now, they were sent to Muslim families for a time, so maybe they enlisted in the corps later. Can't tell anything about that.
And the average age increase that you're referencing came in the XVI century, so please, that's omitting the height of the Ottoman military power when we're talking about the military influence of their most elite corp!


--- Quote ---I'd say that by the time someone because a teenager they have a baseline cultural bias.  (Not that I'm 100% convinced of the theory that Western culture makes better infantry - but your argument against it is BS.)
--- End quote ---
For teenagers, I'd agree. But that's not how I studied it in history classes:).


--- Quote ---By the late 17th century the whole system broke down and the Janissaries were mostly just the empire's elite troops.
--- End quote ---
They also grew corrupted. I mean, they had families and such things that were unthinkable before, if you believe the contemporaries' accounts:D!

And yeah, that's roughly when the West stopped fearing the Ottoman Empire too much;).

Charon's Little Helper:

--- Quote from: AsenRG;964130 ---Don't know what time periods you're referencing, but the usual time for taking a kid as devshirme was between 8 and 10 years old, I think. Now, they were sent to Muslim families for a time, so maybe they enlisted in the corps later. Can't tell anything about that.
And the average age increase that you're referencing came in the XVI century, so please, that's omitting the height of the Ottoman military power when we're talking about the military influence of their most elite corp!


For teenagers, I'd agree. But that's not how I studied it in history classes:).
--- End quote ---

Everything I've read says that they were taken from 8-20 for devshirme in general, but those destined to be janissaries were virtually all teens.  But - historians can argue over tidbits like that until their faces are blue and not come to any consensus.

AsenRG:

--- Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;964155 ---Everything I've read says that they were taken from 8-20 for devshirme in general, but those destined to be janissaries were virtually all teens.  But - historians can argue over tidbits like that until their faces are blue and not come to any consensus.
--- End quote ---

You're talking about the age they sent them to be Janissaries. I'm talking about the age they took them as part of the Blood Toll.
Between the two, there was a period they had to live with select families, precisely because they had to learn customs, how to be good Muslims, and the like.

Charon's Little Helper:

--- Quote from: AsenRG;964253 ---You're talking about the age they sent them to be Janissaries. I'm talking about the age they took them as part of the Blood Toll.
Between the two, there was a period they had to live with select families, precisely because they had to learn customs, how to be good Muslims, and the like.
--- End quote ---

Not from what I've read.  8-20 was when they were taken in general for devshirme.  Those destined to be janissaries weren't taken from their parents for devshirme at all until they were teens.

AsenRG:

--- Quote from: Charon's Little Helper;964278 ---Not from what I've read.  8-20 was when they were taken in general for devshirme.  Those destined to be janissaries weren't taken from their parents for devshirme at all until they were teens.
--- End quote ---

Definitely not what I have been taught!

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[*] Previous page

Go to full version