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Author Topic: Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.  (Read 3181 times)

Darrin Kelley

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« on: January 19, 2018, 01:25:20 AM »
I changed up the spellcasting in AD&D 2nd Edition to operate a bit differently than the standard.

Under my system. A spellcaster would study, or pray as needed when they woke up in the morning. This allowed them to refresh their spell slots. As determined in the standard way by the rulebook.

As they would go throughout the day, magic users could call upon any spell from their spellbook. Provided they had the slots to accomodate them. Clerics and the like would be able to call down any Cleric spell. Provided they had the slots to accomodate them.

In the end. I felt that this approach gave a more spontaneous feel for the players of such characters. Allowing them to choose what spells they needed on the spot. Rather than the standard way of memorizing specific spells at the beginning of the character's day to fill their slots. And it worked. My players loved it.

It should work with any edition of D&D. Any OSR game that uses the standard the old school Vancian methodology..
 

RPGPundit

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 05:24:16 AM »
You wouldn't find that this overpowers the spellcasters? In a system where after low-levels, spellcasters are already somewhat overpowered?
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Darrin Kelley

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 08:40:44 PM »
No. I didn't find it made the spellcasters overpowered at all.

They are still using the same number and levels of spells. They just get a bit more choice in how and when they get to use them.

For my spellcaster players, it eliminated their complaints. Without really changing their character's power level.
 

Dave 2

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 09:16:08 PM »
I'm curious what other rules you were using around spells, Darrin.  Were you rolling spells randomly and using % chance to learn spells for magic users, or were players picking?  For clerics, was losing spell access to divine disfavor a real possibility, or glossed over?  I can see those other rules making a big difference to how powerful your rule would make them.

Also, what was the highest level you played to?  I played a lot of D&D back in that era that never made it above low levels.  Players would move or change jobs, or the GM would get a shiny new world or game, and we'd reset and always start at 1st level again.  :/  I gather that wasn't universal, but I can't believe I'm the only one who encountered it either.

Darrin Kelley

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 09:34:47 PM »
Magic User players were picking spells from what they had in their spellbooks. They were still limited by that factor. The extra die rolling was eliminated at players request.

Yes, Clerics losing spell access due to divine disfavor was a real threat.

The groups got to about 14th level at the maximum. But they had a blast.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 09:52:34 PM by Darrin Kelley »
 

Ratman_tf

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 12:38:22 AM »
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1020580
I changed up the spellcasting in AD&D 2nd Edition to operate a bit differently than the standard.

Under my system. A spellcaster would study, or pray as needed when they woke up in the morning. This allowed them to refresh their spell slots. As determined in the standard way by the rulebook.

As they would go throughout the day, magic users could call upon any spell from their spellbook. Provided they had the slots to accomodate them. Clerics and the like would be able to call down any Cleric spell. Provided they had the slots to accomodate them.

In the end. I felt that this approach gave a more spontaneous feel for the players of such characters. Allowing them to choose what spells they needed on the spot. Rather than the standard way of memorizing specific spells at the beginning of the character's day to fill their slots. And it worked. My players loved it.

It should work with any edition of D&D. Any OSR game that uses the standard the old school Vancian methodology..


This was our houserule system since the late 80's, and the current Pathfinder system as well.
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Gronan of Simmerya

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 01:12:06 AM »
To me, selecting my loadout of spells beforehand is the most interesting part of playing a magic user, so I find this very unappealing.  However, I seem to be in the minority on this issue.
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Darrin Kelley

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 08:49:10 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1021280
This was our houserule system since the late 80's, and the current Pathfinder system as well.

I haven't played Pathfinder. But if they are using it. That's cool.
 

Manic Modron

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 10:11:23 AM »
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1021282
To me, selecting my loadout of spells beforehand is the most interesting part of playing a magic user, so I find this very unappealing.  However, I seem to be in the minority on this issue.

I do appreciate some utility magic usable at will, but in general I think spell selection is a good thing to have to deal with as well.

Manic Modron

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 10:19:58 AM »
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1021312
I haven't played Pathfinder. But if they are using it. That's cool.
Pathfinder is using the same 3rd edition set up.  There are prepared casters that get a better spell selection and normal access to new levels, but a handful of spells per day; also there are spontaneous casters that get a limited list and delayed access to new levels, but more spells per day.

Telarus

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 02:17:49 PM »
This must have been a common houserule (I remember a campaign I played in in the 90s that featured it).

This is also very close to how Earthdawn models spell-magic. Except "slots" are called "Spell Matrix Talents", each have a rank (that you can spend Legend Points on to rank up), and if a spell is complex you need to spend time "charging" it before casting (mimics the old school "casting times may cause your mage to act at the beginning of the next round" rule). But otherwise, you can cast whatever is in your matrices all day long (& the upcoming Earthdawn 4E companion will have optional rules related to "Chain Casting" i.e. "keeping the buff up while we dungeoncrawl without rolling every X minutes").

From the recent (free quickstart) "Legends of Barsaive: Characters" pdf:
Quote
Casting Spells
You must choose which spells are placed in your various 'Spell Matrix' Talents.
The circle of the spell may not exceed the rank of the Spell Matrix Talent. These are the
spells that you may cast safely, without risking the Taint of Horrors. These spells can
be swapped out after ten minutes of meditation or you may attempt to swap a single
spell in one round for 1 Strain.
If a spell requires one or more threads, you must take an action to weave Threads
to the spell. The turn after the minimum number of Threads is woven, the character
may make a Spellcasting test to push the spell through the Matrix and expend the
Threads woven to the spell.

RPGPundit

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 12:59:51 AM »
Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1021006
No. I didn't find it made the spellcasters overpowered at all.

They are still using the same number and levels of spells. They just get a bit more choice in how and when they get to use them.

For my spellcaster players, it eliminated their complaints. Without really changing their character's power level.


The thing is, it was a resource-management mechanically limiting factor for spellcasters that they had to choose spells beforehand. This meant that sometimes, they would fail to pick a spell that would have proved useful, or would choose a spell that won't actually end up being useful.

This was one of the things that helped keep them balanced compared to non-spellcasters.
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Ratman_tf

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 01:30:23 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1021699
The thing is, it was a resource-management mechanically limiting factor for spellcasters that they had to choose spells beforehand. This meant that sometimes, they would fail to pick a spell that would have proved useful, or would choose a spell that won't actually end up being useful.

This was one of the things that helped keep them balanced compared to non-spellcasters.

In our experience, this meant that spellcasters would choose combat or combat useful spells, since combat was a frequent occurance. Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, etc. You don't have to cast Hold Portal if your opponents are all dead, you don't need Knock if you have a thief along, Or at least, that's how the thinking went.
This wasn't true 100% of the time, of course, but often enough so that we used the houserule when we realized the original rule wasn't really balancing anything.
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estar

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 08:54:59 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1021701
In our experience, this meant that spellcasters would choose combat or combat useful spells, since combat was a frequent occurance. Magic Missile, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, etc. You don't have to cast Hold Portal if your opponents are all dead, you don't need Knock if you have a thief along, Or at least, that's how the thinking went.

This wasn't true 100% of the time, of course, but often enough so that we used the houserule when we realized the original rule wasn't really balancing anything.

That has been my experience as well both as referee and player. Which is why I introduced the idea of ritual casting in my Majestic Wilderlands supplement.

joewolz

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Variant Spellcasting system I used for AD&D 2nd edition.
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2018, 11:02:41 AM »
I guess this is how we do it, too in my C&C game. "Balance" is a stupid thing, in my opinion: it's a shibboleth predicated on predictions of stuff that doesn't usually show up in actual play.
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