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Author Topic: Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor  (Read 3347 times)

rgrove0172

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« on: November 22, 2017, 10:15:13 AM »
Ive been preparing to start up our Fantasy Age campaign for a couple weeks or so and ran through some practice battles to get a handle on the rules. Im brand new to the system and could be mistaken but Im seeing a real problem with weapon damage and armor. Ive already nerfed PC hit points as many have suggested and dropped all Adversary HP by about 25% as well but Im not sure that will address the problem Im seeing.

Getting a hit in Fantasy Age isnt always easy, with the 3d6 curve pressing you to the middle of the range and elevated Defense targets being pretty tough on usually low Attack modifiers. But when you do land a hit the issue appears. A great many weapons do 1 or 2 D6 damage and even when accounting for a couple of points of Strength that ends up landing less than 10 damage most of the time. Now drop 3 or 4 or even 6 or 7 of these due to armor and you might net a few damage points and again you might not. NOW... a beginning character and many easy adversaries have twenty or more HP.

Theres the problem. I took a couple beginning characters out after some bandits in rigid leather and it became this long winded slugfest to see who would get a stunt to allow them to actually tack on some real damage. (If your not familiar with Fantasy Age when rolling doubles on your attempt to hit 3D6 you get to "purchase" a special maneuver, a coupleof which allow another 1 or 2 D6 but they dont come around that often.) If what I experienced there happened in a real game I would have been mortified and probably adjusting defenses and armor ratings or something on the fly just to make a little progress.

Is this a common complaint with Fantasy Age, and if so... WTF? How could the designers miss it? If not and Im just not seeing it clearly, can somebody explain what Im missing? (I wont even bring up that the few HP a character actually loses are recovered pretty dang quickly - and I thought D&D5ed was alone in that)

Has anyone house ruled maybe an increase in damage dice? Switch from D6 to a D10 maybe or even D12? What about exploding damage dice or adding damage dice to every attack across the board?

Help?

RunningLaser

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 10:38:12 AM »
Fantasy AGE is at the high end of the high action heroic fantasy spectrum.  Big hit points and low damage are one complaint I've seen a bunch of towards FA.  Over on their forums, there's some ideas on how to fix it- I think one of them is changing dice types.

Keep in mind though, players (and you) are going to getting stunts a bunch.  Some of those stunts increase your damage.  There was one idea I toyed with of increasing stunt damage dice according to what tier the characters were.

estar

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2017, 11:10:07 AM »
I was a Rogue in a campaign that ran from 1st to 16th level. It was tough in the beginning but there wasn't any major issues. The only thing that we eventually toned down was the Heal action. We made a requirement that to do it in combat you need the Chirugeon Talent.

You have to keep in mind that out of 18 rolls 8 of them will be doubles (or triples).

As for the bandits, I am not sure what the deal is but looking on page 105 they only have a defense of 11. Hell a Dragon only has a defense of 12. You should be hitting most of the time especially with a Fighting of +3.

I have time with the holidays and I will work up a blow by blow account of a lst level fight with bandits.

However given on our previous conversations about game system, have you just tried this with RAW?

estar

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2017, 11:21:58 AM »
Breaking down a Bandit

Abilities
+2 Accuracy Focus(Light Blades, Bows);
+1 Communication
+2 Constitution
+1 Dexterity Focus(Stealth)
+2 Fighting Focus(Heavy Blades)
+0 Intelligence
+1 Perception Focus(Searching)
+1 Strength Focus(Intimidation)
+1 Willpower Focus(Morale)

Speed: 11; Health (HP):15; Defense:11; Armor Rating:3

Attacks
Short Bow +4 Dmg:1d6+2
Longsword +4 Dmg: 2d6+1
Dagger +4 Dmg: 1d6+2

Talents
Armor Training (Novice), Single Weapons Style (Novice)

Armor Training (Novice) allows the bandit to wear Leather Armor without penalty

Single Weapon Style (Novice) allows the bandit to take a activate action and gain +1 to defense for the remainder of the combat while using a single weapon. Represent getting into the proper fighting position.

estar

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 11:36:56 AM »
Breaking down a first level Warrior

Thorik Highcliff, Dwarf Warrior

Abilities
+0 Accuracy
+0 Communication
+2 Constitution Focus (Drinking)
+2 Dexterity
+3 Fighting Focus (Axes)
+0 Intelligence
+1 Perception
+3 Strength Focus (Might)
+1 Willpower

Speed: 10; Health (HP):35; Defense:12: Armor Rating:4 Armor Penalty: -1

Attacks
Battle Axe +5 Dmg:2d6+3
Longsword +3 Dmg: 2d6+3
Throwing Spear +4 Dmg: 1d6+6

Talents
Dark Sight, Armor Training (Novice), Dual Weapons Style (Novice), Thrown Weapon Style (Novice)

Armor Training (Novice) allows the dwarf to wear Leather and Chain Armor without penalty

Dual Weapon Style (Novice) while wielding dual weapons allows the dwarf to use a activate action and gain +1 to defense or +1 to attack for the remainder of the combat. This can be switched by using another activate action.

Thrown Weapon Style (Novice) give +1 to hit on all thrown weapons.

estar

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 12:01:57 PM »
Combat
Dwarf versus Bandit

The two met on a dark and lonely road. The Bandit wants the Dwarf's gold. Combat ensues.

Both roll a 12 for initiative. Both add Dex giving 13 for the Bandit and 14 for the Dwarf.
Combatants get a Major action and Minor action per round.

Dwarf Round 1 (35 Health)
The Dwarf can't reach the Bandit in a minor action move. So Dwarf takes a minor action to ready his  throwing spear and then throws the spear at the bandit.

The Dwarf rolls an 11 with no doubles. This hits the bandit for 10 points of damage. The bandit subtracts his AR 3 leaving him with 7 Health.

Bandit Round 1 (7 Health)
Panicked the Bandit takes a activate minor action to get into his single weapon stance giving him +1 to defense. (He had his longsword ready) Then runs at the Dwarf closing within melee range.

Dwarf Round 2 (35 Health)
(Note initiative order can only be altered through stunts.
The Dwarf takes two minor actions to ready his Axe and Longsword.

Bandit Round 2 (7 Health)
The Bandit swings at the Dwarf, roll an 11 with a 5! on the stunt die. With +4 for his longsword this ia 15 which hits Thorik who only has a Defense of 12. The Bandit to use all 5 stunt points on a lethal blow which adds +2d6 damage. The Bandit rolls 4d6+1 for 18 points of damage! Thorik subtracts his AR of 4 and is now down to 21 hit points.

Dwarf Round 3 (21 Health)
Thorik uses an activate minor action get into his Dual Weapon stance opting for +1 to defense.
Thorik attacks the Bandit with his battle axe. Rolls a 10 no doubles. Add +5 for a 15 which hits despite the Bandit's current 12 defense (11 +1 for single weapon style). Thorik rolls 2d6+3 for 10 points of damage. The Bandits subtracts 3 AR which still leaves 7 damage which puts him down to zero.

Thorik cries out his victory shout!

rgrove0172

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 04:10:20 PM »
Your example doesnt make it look half bad but lets give that bandit a shortbow instead and have him snipe from cover. He fires and hits and rolls 1d6+1 + his PCN +1. He rolls a 4, a decent roll and adds 2 for 6 damage. The dwarf then takes 4 back off for armor and the dwarf is hit for 2. He is down to 33 from 35. He can stand there and laugh as even a good roll of 6 generates 4 hits, and watch as the poor bandit prays for a stunt. Even if he gets one though it adds just another d6, average 3.5 more hits and is still just an annoyance. It would be the same if a thief jumped out at him in an alley with a knife, worse actually with no +1 damage and probably limited Strength.

Im thinking maybe a damage dice increase or an exploding dice mechanic in the least. Seriously this doesnt present a problem in the game. We have already seriously curtailed HP progression and healing and it still feels unbalanced in favor of the defender.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:12:39 PM by rgrove0172 »

Psikerlord

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 09:32:50 PM »
Interesting I generally liked the look of FA and want to give it a go in the future, but I never did any test fights with it. Will bear this in mind.
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Headless

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 09:37:25 PM »
@ Rogrove.

Maybe a short bow just isn't a dangerous weapon to a guy in steel armor.

Beldar

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 10:16:46 PM »
I've actually run a short campaign with FA that died rapidly. The game has some very serious problems baked into its basic design.

Hit points scale rapidly upwards while damage only very slowly increases (if at all.) This means that combat simply takes longer and longer as levels advance without any additional depth to show for it. We cut all HP in half and STILL had issues with this.

Rolling to hit is mostly a waste of time except to see if you get stunt points or not. Hitting is so easy in most cases that it may as well be automatic after a few levels.

Stunts are an illusion of choice. There are a few stunts that are simply better than the rest for the assigned point costs. Also, due to the inflation of hit points problem, you are simply going to select the best "extra damage" stunt you can with the points you have available.

Basically, it's the RPG equivalent of the card game War. We stuck with it for a while hoping that if would improve over time, but it most certainly did not. Save yourself the pain and choose a different game.

rgrove0172

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2017, 09:20:35 AM »
Hmm...why not just fix it? I've seen a few things I didn't like and quickly house ruled them the system is,at its core quite simple and easy to modify.

AsenRG

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2017, 03:23:29 AM »
Quote from: rgrove0172;1009119
Hmm...why not just fix it? I've seen a few things I didn't like and quickly house ruled them the system is,at its core quite simple and easy to modify.

OK, do that.
Step one, replace the HP with a damage save mechanic and improve the defenses.
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Headless

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2017, 09:29:03 AM »
This is the system you are going with for the new game you were planning to run in D&D 5th edition?  

What are you looking for again?

rgrove0172

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Fantasy Age (Dragon Age) Damage and Armor
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2017, 11:25:07 AM »
Really didnt realize the issue with TO HIT being so easy until after a few practice combats. Now what a few players have been commenting on makes perfect sense. When I increased the damage and decreased HP the game became crazy deadly. Not altogether a bad thing but it was more dramatic than I had anticipated no considering most combatants will be hitting like 75% of the time or greater. Uggh..