This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Author Topic: Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics  (Read 1154 times)

Dumarest

  • Vaquero
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3685
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« on: September 22, 2017, 04:30:32 PM »
I was just re-reading (classic) Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics, when I came across the bit about Endurance and how a character can only make a number of blows in combat equal to his Endurance score, excepting surprise blows, and then must rest for at least 30 minutes or else they get a negative die modifier. I know I knew this in the back of my mind but I don't think I've ever applied this rule. Anybody playing Traveller adhere to this rule? I think I'm going to have to try it out and see how it affects things; I'm sure it will make players more likely to avoid a fight that may be prolonged and rely more on sneak/surprise attacks or quick actions to take out an opponent quickly.

Edit: page 31, not 26. Is there a way to change the thread title?

Edit: Thanks for fixing that, Estar.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 06:22:47 PM by Dumarest »

christopherkubasik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • c
  • Posts: 393
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 04:38:47 PM »
The rules for this go on a little bit more...

"Weakened blows and swings are those attacks made after the combat blow allowance has been used up. Each weakened blow or swing is subject to the nega-tive DM indicated in the weapons table. Any number of weakened blows and swings may be made. To conserve strength, a character may elect to make any blow or swing weakened, and thus not have it counted against his endurance allowance."

So you can keep fighting while winded, but at a penalty.

And the number of blows is determined by value of your Endurance before you go into a fight. So if your Endurance is down from 7 to 4 because of a wound taken in a previous fight, you'll have only 4 blows to make before you are winded.

This is one more point where healing, and thus time, really comes into play in Classic Traveller.

Dumarest

  • Vaquero
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3685
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 04:42:23 PM »
Yeah, it sounds good; I just can't remember ever using it. I expect it will put a real spin on when, why, and how PCs get into fights.

christopherkubasik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • c
  • Posts: 393
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 04:44:52 PM »
Quote from: Dumarest;994966
I expect it will put a real spin on when, why, and how PCs get into fights.

Exactly.

Also, if you use it against an opponent if you have surprise -- if you sneak up one someone and take him out before he knows you are there -- it doesn't count against the Endurance limit.

All sorts of tactics some into play in different ways.

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18318
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 04:59:51 PM »
Quote from: Dumarest;994961
I was just re-reading (classic) Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics, when I came across the bit about Endurance and how a character can only make a number of blows in combat equal to his Endurance score, excepting surprise blows, and then must rest for at least 30 minutes or else they get a negative die modifier. I know I knew this in the back of my mind but I don't think I've ever applied this rule. Anybody playing Traveller adhere to this rule? I think I'm going to have to try it out and see how it affects things; I'm sure it will make players more likely to avoid a fight that may be prolonged and rely more on sneak/surprise attacks or quick actions to take out an opponent quickly.

Edit: page 31, not 26. Is there a way to change the thread title?

I've used it, but except for bar fights it was pretty rare we hade a melee combat go on long enough for someone to get winded.
"Meh."

TrippyHippy
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 2003
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 05:55:07 PM »
The criticism, generally, of the Classic Traveller rules are that they tended to hinge on a lot of individual case applications rather than universal rules. The game itself is a marvel of game history innovation and certainly does work, but there are a fair amount of moving cogs like the Endurance rules, that a referee and players have to remember. Later editions have their own set of criticisms too, but the major developments was in creating a universal set of mechanics, that are more intuitive in play. The exception being T5, however.
I pretended that a picture of a toddler was representative of the Muslim Migrant population to Europe and then lied about a Private Message I sent to Pundit when I was admonished for it.  (Edited by Admin)

ffilz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 06:01:08 PM »
I don't know if I've ever used this rule in Traveller (I'm not truly sure how much combat I ran by Traveller's rules, I do know I did run at least some), but I've used fatigue rules in other games. I have a 1/2" counter labeled "turn" that I would move down a number track written on the edge of my Battlemat to keep track. Since I have an intent to run my Classic Traveller game using the rules as presented, I will be using this rule in my games.

Frank

Dumarest

  • Vaquero
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3685
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2017, 06:17:21 PM »
Quote from: TrippyHippy;994985
The criticism, generally, of the Classic Traveller rules are that they tended to hinge on a lot of individual case applications rather than universal rules. The game itself is a marvel of game history innovation and certainly does work, but there are a fair amount of moving cogs like the Endurance rules, that a referee and players have to remember. Later editions have their own set of criticisms too, but the major developments was in creating a universal set of mechanics, that are more intuitive in play. The exception being T5, however.

I don't know that I consider universal mechanics to be an improvement. For me it depends more on whether the mechanic makes sense and does what it should. I've seen many games where the mechanics are the same for everything but the unintended consequence was that everything felt the same when we played them. I've found that I, and most players I've played with, don't mind and/or possibly enjoy little subsets of rules that make things feel different.

Spinachcat

  • Toxic SocioCat
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 14805
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 02:18:17 AM »
It's among the many rules I ignore!

My players were always so shotgun / autofire happy (and thus, much splatter) that I didn't worry about fatigue.

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9487
  • high-minded hack
    • The Viking Hat GM
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 02:25:35 AM »
I've used it before, in the current game in which I'm a player it's not been an issue, as the fights are all 2-3 rounds at most. Walk up to someone in a vacuum and slit open his suit... well, that was a short fight.
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

christopherkubasik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • c
  • Posts: 393
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 10:33:26 AM »
I think the rule is mostly for dueling -- back when dueling was a thing in SF. (Though it is an issue for brawling as well.)

Any blade weapon skill can be applied as -DM if you're fighting someone using a blade weapon against you. So if you have two people who know how to sword fight they will each have penalties as they roll to hit from their opponents parring skill. This extends contests... which means the Endurance rules might come into play. (And, again, Brawling provides a similar Defensive penalty on the attacker if the defender as a Defensive expertise in Brawling.)

Most people play Traveller in the uniformly high-tech setting of the Third Imperium. But the rules are there to handle worlds like those found in Jack Vance's Planet of Adventure series, the fisticuff action of The Demon Princes books, or even a planetary romance setting like A Princess of Mars. In those tales the the protagonists often end up without firearms -- either because they run out of ammo, their weapons have been taken, or their are not many firearms available.

Any specific setting detail will obviously impact how many, if any, Blows or Swings are regularly made in a game session.

Skarg

  • Venerable Gamer
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2380
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 11:14:47 AM »
I remember the rule, and discussing it with my players and quibbling about the values in the table etc., and we agreed to try them as written to see the effects, but that it didn't really become a factor because (I didn't run Traveller for very long and) the personal combats were mostly with guns etc and didn't last long enough for someone making swings or blows to do that for more than a few turns.

RPGPundit

  • Administrator - The Final Boss of Internet Shitlords
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 48855
    • http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 03:56:29 AM »
I didn't even remember this rule existed! Though I know I'd read it once before. I almost immediately almost unconsciously chose to ignore it.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you've played 'medieval fantasy' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Dumarest

  • Vaquero
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3685
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 01:30:14 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;995626
I didn't even remember this rule existed! Though I know I'd read it once before. I almost immediately almost unconsciously chose to ignore it.

I suppose that is what I did. When I came across it, it didn't seem new to me but rather seemed like something I just didn't ever use. If I get a Traveller game up and running, I think I will try to use the rules in the book.

jeff37923

  • Knight of Common Sense
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18318
Traveller Book 1, page 31, The Effects of Characteristics
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 01:44:49 PM »
Well, most melee combat in Classic Traveller never lasts long enough for them to come into play. The only times I've ever had a chance to use that rule is when there was a bar brawl which tend to last long enough for the rule to come into play.
"Meh."