Hero System is one of my favorite RPGS, but there are a few things that could be improved. I’ve created a rules variant that uses the Normal Damage dice scale for Killing Damage, which eliminates half-dice and rolling for a STUN multiplier. The goal is to speed up combat and make the game simpler. I’ve been playing Hero for some time, but I’m not an expert-- so let me know if I missed anything.

Rules Modifications

1. Use the Damage Classes Table to convert Killing Damage dice to Normal Damage dice. Example: Under the original rules, a Desert Eagle does 2d6 BODY, but now it does 6d6.

1 pip = 1d6
1/2D = 2d6
1d6 = 3d6
1d6+1 = 4d6
1.5 d6 = 5d6
2d6 = 6d6
2d6+1 = 7d6
2.5 d6 = 8d6
3d6 = 9d6
etc.

2. Since KA’s now do more damage, the BODY characteristic must increase. Use the same scale as STUN:

• Base Value: 20
• Cost: 1 CP per +2 BODY
• Characteristic maximum: 50

3. In combat, subtract Killing Damage from both STUN and BODY. Example: The Avenger shoots the Dark Archer for 18 BODY. The Dark Archer’s armor provides 6 rPD, which reduces the damage to 12. Adding his 5 PD to the armor reduces the STUN damage to 7 STUN.  

4. The Death threshold remains the same (negative BODY).

5. BODY heals at REC x 3 per month, rather than REC per month.

6. RKA’s are now purchased as Blast (does BODY). HKA’s are now purchased as a Hand-to-Hand Attack (does BODY).  There’s no additional cost for the “does BODY” modifier, but you must declare it when you buy the power.  

7. Converting published NPC’s is simple. First, multiply BODY x3. Next, use the Damage Scale Table to convert any Killing Attacks to the Normal Damage scale.

Edit: This doesn't work right, it is too lethal.

Of the various changes made in 6th Ed I think one was to eliminate the Stun Multiplier die. Killing Attacks now do a flat x2 Stun. So 7 Killing Damage also does 14 Stun. Advantages can be purchased to increase the multiplier.

Quote from: Certified;953715Of the various changes made in 6th Ed I think one was to eliminate the Stun Multiplier die. Killing Attacks now do a flat x2 Stun. So 7 Killing Damage also does 14 Stun. Advantages can be purchased to increase the multiplier.

Hi Certfied: Are you sure? I just checked Champions Complete (p. 156):

QuoteTo determine how much STUN damage the attack does, the character rolls ½d6 (the STUN Multiplier) and multiplies the result by the BODY done.

I was thinking along these lines last night, but one thing stalled my train of thought: How does Transform work?

Quote from: Aglondir;953717Hi Certfied: Are you sure? I just checked Champions Complete (p. 156):

Yeah, unfortunately, I wasn't positive.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;953726I was thinking along these lines last night, but one thing stalled my train of thought: How does Transform work?

I cross-posted this on the Hero System forum, and they showed me why it won't work.

• Original rules: Dark Archer has 10 BODY and armor that does 6 rPD. He gets shot by a Desert Eagle (2d6) for 7 BODY, which the armor reduces to 1 BODY.
• My proposal: Dark Archer has 30 BODY and armor that does 6 rPD. He gets shot by a Desert Eagle (6d6) for 21 BODY, which the armor reduces to 15 BODY.

It makes the game too lethal. Under the original rules, the Dark Archer lost 1/10 of his BODY, but now he loses 50% of it. Basically, it makes Resistant Defenses underpowered.

Quote from: Aglondir;953729I cross-posted this on the Hero System forum, and they showed me why it won't work.

• Original rules: Dark Archer has 10 BODY and armor that does 6 rPD. He gets shot by a Desert Eagle (2d6) for 7 BODY, which the armor reduces to 1 BODY.
• My proposal: Dark Archer has 30 BODY and armor that does 6 rPD. He gets shot by a Desert Eagle (6d6) for 21 BODY, which the armor reduces to 15 BODY.

It makes the game too lethal. Under the original rules, the Dark Archer lost 1/10 of his BODY, but now he loses 50% of it. Basically, it makes Resistant Defenses underpowered.

   Good point. I suppose if there was an easy fix, Herodom Assembled would have hit on it by now.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;953734Good point. I suppose if there was an easy fix, Herodom Assembled would have hit on it by now.

Herodom Assembled does have a good variant. Here's how it works:

For Killing Damage:

Step 1: Find the correspnding Normal damage value on the Damage Class Table. For a 2d6 KA, this is 6d6.
Step 2: Roll the 6d6 for the STUN damage.
Step 3: Count the pips for BODY damage.
Step 4: Apply defenses and subtract from STUN/BODY as normal.

Example: Dark Archer has 30 STUN, 10 BODY, 5 PD, and 6rPD. The Avenger shoots him with a Desert Eagle. He rolls 6d6, for 21 STUN and 6 BODY. This is reduced to 10 STUN (from the PD + armor) and 0 BODY (from the armor).

This is a bit less lethal than the original rules, since a 2d6 KA usuaally does an average of 7 BODY and now it does 6.

Quote from: Aglondir;953739This is a bit less lethal than the original rules, since a 2d6 KA usuaally does an average of 7 BODY and now it does 6.

   It also adds 7 STUN to the 6E average; on average, it looks like this variant will usually add about +1.17 STUN to Killing damage per damage class. This may offset the loss of .16 BODY per DC.

   A middle way might be to fix the STUN multiplier as a flat x2, and to avoid half-dice, take a page from the d6 system and go in steps of +1, +2, whole die.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;953742It also adds 7 STUN to the 6E average; on average, it looks like this variant will usually add about +1.17 STUN to Killing damage per damage class. This may offset the loss of .16 BODY per DC.

Correct.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;953742A middle way might be to fix the STUN multiplier as a flat x2, and to avoid half-dice, take a page from the d6 system and go in steps of +1, +2, whole die.

Or a STUN multiplier = flat 3. That way the 2d6 KA is doing an average of 21 STUN, which is the same as a 6d6 Normal attack.

Or maybe I might to do this:

1. There are no KA's or RKA's. Damage is damage.
2. There are no Resistant Defenses. Defenses are defenses.
3. Make STUN = Hit Points.  
4. If your HP <= 0 from a lethal attack, you're dying, blah blah blah.
5. If your HP <= 0 from a non-lethal attack, you're knocked out, blah blah blah.

Quote from: Aglondir;953758Or maybe I might to do this:

1. There are no KA's or RKA's. Damage is damage.
2. There are no Resistant Defenses. Defenses are defenses.
3. Make STUN = Hit Points.  
4. If your HP <= 0 from a lethal attack, you're dying, blah blah blah.
5. If your HP <= 0 from a non-lethal attack, you're knocked out, blah blah blah.

That's effectively how M&M 3e does it...  (not saying it's a bad thing)

Quote from: Aglondir;953758Or maybe I might to do this:

1. There are no KA's or RKA's. Damage is damage.
2. There are no Resistant Defenses. Defenses are defenses.
3. Make STUN = Hit Points.  
4. If your HP <= 0 from a lethal attack, you're dying, blah blah blah.
5. If your HP <= 0 from a non-lethal attack, you're knocked out, blah blah blah.

We played Hero 6e with a similar variant:
1. There are no KA's or RKA's. Use the blast/HA scaling (1d6/5 base points).
2. There are no Resistant Defenses.
3. both stun and body damage exists, at normal prices.
4. Damage is score normally (full d6 rolls to stun; 1=0, 2-5=1, 6=2 for body damage.
5. PD protects fully against stun, and 50% to body

So the desert Eagle (now 6D6) can hit, rolling (5,2,6,6,4,2), doing 23 stun and 8 body. Your 5 PD and 6 rPD probably gets turned in for PD 14, which reduces stun damage to 7 and body damage to 1.
So as you see, it's lower lethality than normal, but doesn't have the same whatever-blow-drops-you-determines-lethality effect.

I posted this in my Hero System thread. Seemed appropriate for this one.


Fpr Superheroic games, I've toyed with the idea of making Killing damage just normal where only Resistant Defenses affected it and there was a Body Multiplier roll 1=1x, 2=1.5, 3=2. Killing would be a +1/4 Advantage and the Body Multiple would not increase potential knockback. Only applying Resistant Def might be fine for Heroic games.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;953803That's effectively how M&M 3e does it...  (not saying it's a bad thing)

I thought M and M used Damage Saves?