I am just curious what people think about nudity in RPG books that isn't the chain mail bikini variety. I was having a conversation with one of my artists who was a bit frustrated that there isn't much place for the kind of nudity you see all over the rest of the art world in games. The artist was thinking more along the lines of stuff that tries to capture the beauty of the human form but isn't aimed at titillation. My feeling is this is because RPG books tend to be illustrative, and if you include nudity in an image to convey a feeling or mood, people take it quite literally. Does it have a place? Does it annoy you? Do you think we could use more art that isn't so literal?

I'll be honest, I don't know. I don't mind a well done human figure, however, I'm not sure we should be treating game books as "art books," and most of the nudity of artistic types I've seen are all exclusive to either paintings on walls, or art books.

Nowdays you can find that in places like Deviant Art, or tumblr. Yet, while I know its there, its not something I look for--it simply is a thing.

A lot of it may depend on "what nude" and "what is he/she doing" (why yes, there should be nude males if there are nude females.)


However, what instance in a game book would a nude art piece illustrate? I mean, fighting nude is not smart. Standing there nude illustrates nothing going on in a game, so really what would the purpose of nude art serve?

Hellas for example has a few bits in its books IIRC, and it fits the Greek themes, but I'm not sure where else that would be appropriate for a gaming context.


Plus, I don't want to have to hide game books I'm reading when I'm visiting friends because of an artistic choice--they have kids not of an age where seeing that is likely approved. (I'd have to ask) and I like being able to read my books wherever I go..

I am thinking about art that might capture the mood or feel of a setting without trying to specifically illustrate something in it. It isn't so much about treating the RPG book as art (I will leave that debate for another thread) but using art to evoke the setting in a way that is more about atmosphere or maybe even myth. So not talking about an image that suggests characters should fight in the nude (you might have a nude combat scene though to convey how vulnerable people were in a particular massacre or against certain creatures).

I am fin with it. In fact nude art composes about 75% of my non-commercial commissions. But in an RPG, or most anything else really. It must fit the setting and story. If it is set on Barsoom then there should be alot of nudity. If its set in the roaring 20s then there should be close to none unless its some odd twist. If its set in some barbaric Conan-esque setting then theres likely some nudity in there somewhere.

Bemusingly two of the IP based RPs I worked on had a fair amount of nudity in them. But the books I illustrated didnt. It did not fit the market I was in at the time. Today with a different market Id add back in the nudity.

Unfortunately there are loonies about to whom anything short of a woman encased in a block of granite is going to have them screaming mysogynist nutidy. And even the block might not save you.

Make a choice and stick to it.

Quote from: Omega;809190I am fin with it. In fact nude art composes about 75% of my non-commercial commissions. But in an RPG, or most anything else really. It must fit the setting and story. If it is set on Barsoom then there should be alot of nudity. If its set in the roaring 20s then there should be close to none unless its some odd twist. If its set in some barbaric Conan-esque setting then theres likely some nudity in there somewhere.

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How would you feel about nudity that is a stylistic choice, that isn't meant to be taken literally. For example something like Watson and the Shark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_and_the_Shark).

If it fits the theme you are going for, that's fine.

I remember that Watson pic from when I was a kid- it still sends shivers down my back.

I would be comfortable with it as long as it fit with the context. I'm a 42 year old male if that helps you understand demographics of opinions.

So a primitive culture would probably show nudity if the climate was warm. You could have a culture which lacked nudity taboos too, if you wanted to and it added to the game.

Nude adventurers are a bit harder to rationalise. If you are fighting or spelunking you want to cover up. But then wizards in robes are similarly impractical... Combat sports like wrestling are a historical precedent for nudity there, but not on an actual battlefield.

I would personally accept some nudity (as long as it wasn't overtly sexualised) to illustrate a decadent society like Rome with slaves or magical ritual if that was the 'flavour' of magic you were going for.

Basically, I'm way past "look, boobies!"

I find it distracting, pruriently or otherwise.

Tasteful nudity would probably have to be defined as that which conveys a message beyond "here is a nekkid person; sexxoring is nigh."  A meditation on the beauty of the body, or some other coherent statement *using* body imagery, may have a place somewhere in RPGs, but I'm not sure I've seen a serious execution yet.

RPGs are still mostly made by guys for guys, and because guys tend to be visually oriented we expect a certain amount of gratuitous sexual imagery.  I guess I'm sort of okay with that, but it's going to make me sneer.  Accompanying text *might* justify it--or even make up for it.

Why is this person nekkid in my RPG?  That's what I would ask when I run across it.  Nudity has meaning beyond sex, but if a publisher invokes it, then chickens out on exploring it, that publisher earns derision.

Quote from: dbm;809194...Basically, I'm way past "look, boobies!"

I can't quite make that same claim, but I greatly prefer a game's at least pretending that I am much more than a gonad.

I expect nudity in certain settings e.g. Greek atheletes, Celtic warriors, slaves in Rome, most any setting where people are having sex. Whether nudity is appropriate in an RPG depends on what is being depicted and what the setting is.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;809191How would you feel about nudity that is a stylistic choice, that isn't meant to be taken literally. For example something like Watson and the Shark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_and_the_Shark).

My first thought was, "Why did the shark eat his clothes?"

So maybe not the best example for when to include nudity.

Basically, if it's part of a variety, makes 'sense,' and not weird, I'm cool with it.

So, for example, the comic book contortionist 'tits and ass facing the camera' or the poop squat... unless you are making a cubism joke, god, stop it. Same with balloon-boobed women who have invisible bras keeping their hooters up.

If you have 'sensibly plate armored warrior woman' and 'exotic dancer in gauze', ok, fine.

I make some liberal exceptions for classic tropes, like Frazetta or other S&S stuff.

Forget for a moment that nudity is a "thing" in many of our cultures...

Does the image of that person make sense with or without clothing? If it doesn't make sense, then you'd have to ask why has the artist made an issue with clothing? This goes for both underclothed and overclothed pictures. If I see a picture of Joan of Arc on the battlefield half-naked then it's gratuitous. Similarly, if I see a picture of a Yap islander with conveniently-placed leis covering up anything that might offend the prudish North American, then I think it's silly and disrespectful to Yapese culture. The art should represent the clothing traditions of the cultures in the game.

Remember that nudity is a "thing" in many of our cultures...
Putting pictures of naked people in your gamebook is, for better or worse, making a statement. Some people are going to make a big deal about it and it may overshadow the game itself. Be prepared to back up your decision.

Sure, why not? Put some notice or disclaimer so people that have  a problem with it can make an informed choice. But its just a naked body. People get way to worked up about stuff like that.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;809191How would you feel about nudity that is a stylistic choice, that isn't meant to be taken literally. For example something like Watson and the Shark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_and_the_Shark).

"Isn't meant to be taken literally"?
Heh (Cruel grin and semi-sarcastic voice)
"I find no reason to not see that painting as symbolical."
(Back to normal voice)
Actually, I really don't, but then I don't mind nudity either.
However, I neither find any really good reason for the one in the water to be nude, but the painting would at least be safe from the extreme feminists since it isn't a woman.

Personally, I find no problem with the chainmail bikini, and I call myself pro-feminist (but not feminist).
The only real problems with the chainmail bikini is that it, and similar, has been used too often, and that some games(mainly computer- and console-games) even has had the notion to believe it works as armor .. which it do not.

Now, do nudity belong in rpgs?
No, unless the characters either:
A) Come from a culture that promotes nudity.
B) Are Animal- or Monster-Anthros
C) Has Natural Armor
D) Deliberately aim to be seductive or sexy

Except for that, it is only for statues, slaves, and some servants.

Also, the most common complaint from the few feministic sites I look at, seem to be that the nudity tend to be reserved for Women, Girls, and Femmes in general, not to mention that even supposedly powerful femmes suddenly is depicted as weak, and/or in unnecessarily sexy positions.

So, I recon most of the sensible feminists don't mind tasteful nudity, especially if there is a notable amount of males that also is nude.

as others have said, I think it depends on context.  Chainmail bikinis and constant images of female subjegation ala Boris V?  Probably not.

does it fit the scene?  Sure.  I'm fine with it.

I guess one could ask themselves a question: "Would you think it's cool putting in a picture of a dude with his swinging dick visible?  If not, then probably not a good idea to put a picture of a full frontal nude woman there either."

I.e., I think we have double standards when it comes to nudity in stuff.  And I don't think that's OK.

Quote from: Catelf;809209Personally, I find no problem with the chainmail bikini, and I call myself pro-feminist (but not feminist).
The only real problems with the chainmail bikini is that it, and similar, has been used too often, and that some games(mainly computer- and console-games) even has had the notion to believe it works as armor .. which it do not.

Wait, something less than entirely realistic or even feasible...in an rpg?

When did that start happening!?